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Amazing 9-11 info
KEY issues covered up by DISINFO
PSYOPS - Manipulating the Mind for Tyranny
INDEX2 9-11 & Fourth Reich, Nazi history
back to psyops and disinfo on index-b
The official govt 9-11 Conspiracy Theory is drivel. The Govt and Media are lying their asses off, deflecting suspicion with both their multiple official explanations (FAA, NORAD, and 9-11 Comm have different timelines) and hit-piece debunkings. On examination, their puzzle pieces just don't fit.Jim Hoffman (a nano-surface engineer) at 911review.com (not dot org) offers one of the most detailed warnings about fake 9-11 conspiracy issues, theories and videos which are designed to undermine the credibility of honest and sane 9-11 activists.
(The establishment seems to be INSERTING competing junk stories maybe into the web and even the mainstream media --- the 'holy television' --- junk food for the the suspicious to feed on, and the "conspiracy theorists" to play with, while simultaneously debunking them and using them to debunk serious research. This creates doubt and confusion, as well as cocksure anti-skeptics. Under doubt and confusion, most people will leap to conclusions which give them comfort -- either believing ALL the ridiculous stuff, or saying with a voice of certainty that "it's all crap".)
I must give credit here to Break for News and Fintan Dunne. Before I stumbled on B4N, I had reached a point where I was reading competing conspiracy theorists, horrified by some of the John Birch propaganda of Alex Jones and gay-bashing that made him unwatchable, and wondering what to believe. The skepticism of Break for News helped me understand that Donald Rumsfeld's "Office of Disinformation" (which he swore he abandoned) was likely manipulating the web, and there were mainstream reports on Pentagon hiring Bloggers to post articles or maybe troll the web and spin things the way the Pentagon wants. The old FBI-COINTELPRO strategy involved disinformation, confusion, rumors, and ridicule. Mockingbird was about manipulating mainstream media outlets through tight "relationships" with owners and sometimes with editors and reporters. Also CIA infiltrating or creating faux Left organizations, even Artists like Jackson Pollock, and presumably musicians. It worked on the Left during Vietnam.
(more research showedme that JBS is a cousin to McCarthyism and to the Nazis, via the WACL which is an underground anti-communist terror group that attacked random civilians, and which appears to be the "parent company" of Al-Qaeda)
Therefore, it's sad for me to say that Fintan Dunne and his crowd went off the rails and started accusing ME (moi!!) of being some kind of CIA asset. They started seeing everything through the lens of conspiracy. Some conspiracies are known and have been partly exposed, even in sworn Congressional hearings. The late Phil Agee of the CIA told a lot of true stories. Much of America's conspiracism has emerged out of right wing religious paranoia, the 50s version of "Obama is the Anti-Christ and a Communist". Obama is a puppet of Wall Street banks and their CIA, the National Security State? Sure. Satan? Lenin? Think not. So goodbye and thanks to Break for News. It was wonderful while it lasted, and quite the worthwhile challenge and sparring.
NOTE: It is more than doubtful that any of this Sept 11 stuff will EVER be proven in courts or hearings. By who? Maybe some hearings will reveal the basics: Bush and Condi must have read the CIA briefing on Al-Qaeda planning attacks. That's in the movie Press for Truth, so nothing groundbreaking. Proving HOW the Towers fell comes nowhere near to WHO or WHY, other than blaming Bush and Cheney. Seriously, Bush was not the "mastermind" of the operation, no more than Mohamed Atta was.
This is for THE PEOPLE. SEE BELOW.
The Internet is flooded with a thick slurry of mix-and-match bullshit --- some accurate facts mixed with bizarre disinfo, mild disinfo, association of truth with wild kooky theories, and leaps from suspicions to unverifiable (or poorly analyzed) conclusions. The way science works is it develops theories, tries to prove them, but also tries to rationally debunk their own theories, not provide knee-jerk defense.
" ... conclusion-driven nonsense ... "
The fake or questionable BULLshit is given the widest media coverage, as if that's the whole game.
Here's a 2 minute audio of REAL evidence.
A professional pilot's view of 9-11.
(It's OK to speculate rationally about an unknown which could lead to a line of inquiry and reasoning, to form a hypothesis or several. That's quite different from adopting speculation as fact.)
"If you have just as many nutty theories about the driver of the limo turning around and shooting JFK as you have honest scientific inquiries about the real probability of multiple shooters, the wheat drowns in the chaff."
-- Sander Hicks, author of "The Big Wedding"
(Note: The driver DID slow down, turn around, and WAIT as he watched JFK get the fatal head shot, before accelerating out of the kill zone. Clear violation of normal security procedures. He was never questioned. But his "gun" was an optical illusion on the film.)
"No Planes" was debunked as early as FOUR years ago (2002).
Serious engineers and serious researchers spent a lot of time investigating 9-11, proved an inside job beyond any reasonable doubt.
They also credibly debunked some of the ideas on these documentaries.
Thierry Meyssan and his "Hunt the Boeing" 2002 book/web/flash-video, latched on by The Power Hour and the In Plane Site video from 2004.
This was followed by "the South Tower hit was really a Hologram" by webfairy (Rosalee Grable) and Gerard Holmgren. Mud-slinging ensued.
David McGowan offers a some photos of planes being built. An airliner is not a body with two wings attached. It's a heavy-duty wingspan with engines and wheels and brakes attached, with a lightweight "soda can" stuck on top to contain the electronics and the passengers and luggage. The nose cone is lightweight graphite material, surely strong enough to repel most flight debris, but not punch a round hole in a football field thickness of reinforced concrete. The nose of a plane cannot penetrate in that manner. The Twin Towers, of course it could partly pentrate the "skin" of glass and steel. Just as well, the wings cannot "break off" from the body, and fold back one on each side. The wingspan can only slam in as a single solid piece, which it is, maybe with the wingtips breaking off first.
David McGowan does not try to claim that Flight AA77 was taken somewhere and the passengers removed alive. Loose Change (below) claims this, without explaining that this idea was one of the ideas sketched out in Operation Northwoods. On the other hand, McGowan does claim that it's unlikely that any passenger jet hit the Pentagon, for one because it would have taken a missile to punch out that hole an airliner could NOT have done it, and two, the lack of a sizeable debris field anywhere, no big engines on the lawn, just a few scraps.
BUT THE MUCH STRONGER POINT is how AA77 could have been gotten away with approaching the Pentagon at all -- EVER -- let alone fly over it, and especially in the midst of a military crisis involving airliners striking buildings. AA77 allegedly circled over the Pentagon and turned back around, flying in the vicinity for almost five minutes while dropping thousands of feet, before running into the Pentagon, a terrorist flight path, a slow motion attack. It would have been funnier if AA77 had performed some stunt flying "loop-de-loops" before crashing, for a great video, like watching "Asshole".
Critics challenged these conclusions, disputed "facts", respectfully at first, utmost detail, giving the benefit of the doubt in terms of sincerity. When they got nowhere arguing with the promoters of this crap, one went so far as to state: If [VonKleist] is not a paid intelligence disinformation asset, then he is the dream of the intelligence community ...
SO NOW I HAVE A PROBLEM. I WROTE THIS IN A SARCASTIC TONE. YET DAVE VonKleist HAS INVITED ME TO SPEAK ON HIS SHOW (on 02-27-2009) and HE SEEMS LIKE A NICE GUY. SO I CANNOT "WIMP-OUT" AND COMPLETELY REMOVE THESE CRITICAL REMARKS, BUT I CAN "TAME" THEM A LITTLE, AND APOLOGIZE FOR THE SARCASM, even if I don't agree with the "pods" theory.
BOTH SIDES OF THE CURRENT "NO PLANE" CONSPIRACY THEORY vs. PENTAGON DEBUNKING PHOTOS -- neither the govt nor the kooks has "proven" anything. They want it that way -- OBFUSCATION and CONFUSION.
Legitimate KEY issues covered up by "no planes" crap controversies
"Hunt the Boeing" & "In Plane Site" some major flaws, downpage on link.
NOTE: Some think all this "popular" 9-11 rant is Liberal Bush-hating stuff. Bush is above criticism, he was "anointed" by God to lead America.
Theirry Meyssan is a French Leftist, true. On the other hand, Dave Von Kleist leans towards the Christian Right.
"Loose Change" regurgitated the same theme plus more, marketed to a different audience - youth, techno sound, slick.
It's so bad it LOOKS no less than intentional disinfo. If they ever clean it up, I'll apologize. (Pretty solid performance on Democracy Now for Loose Change guys, but I still have problems with it, last I checked.)
(Dave von Kleist and Joyce Riley seem to accurately and sincerely advocate for civilians and Veterans who have experienced Depleted Uranium poisoning. But he makes statements claiming that researchers who criticize his "questions" or his interpretation only want to cover up the truth about 9-11, despite the fact that his critics offer similar viewpoints but lacking all the flaws and leaps of logic. Von Kleist might be a poison pill for DU as well.)
Some parts of Loose Change are accurate, important, and clear. Operation Northwoods.
Some parts point to solid facts but using bad logic, and other parts are total crap or dubious. Dubious stuff is given equal or greater weight to solid stuff.
When the Loose Change crew went to Ground Zero, they acted like jerks, as did the WING TV neo-Nazis (audio).
Screw Loose Change.blogspot.com
Screw Loose Change: My New Hero--Paul Isaac, Jr.
Gold Nuggets vs. Fools Gold in Loose Change (local copy MHTML, use Msft IE)
Michael B. Green says he
was initially fooled by In Plane Site,
sent out emails, had to apologize.
When he later found REAL factual info, he had lost credibility.
First hand experience in how garbage killed truth.
"I suggest that the purpose in including both junk and substantive evidence is to discredit the latter. If rotten fish is wrapped in the same package as delicious truffles, few people with good judgment or good taste will attempt to retrieve and salvage the truffles. It is also to scant good evidence and thorough analysis in favor of cheap shots and one-liners that have no evidentiary value whatsoever.
the good meat of the WTC
blowing up between two pieces of rotten bread: the no-plane-hit-the-Pentagon,
and the Pod & Flash fraud.
US Office of Strategic Services 1943 - Creating a Successful Rumor Guidelines
Official Strawmen are created who discredit themselves, then they backpedal later, and the media treats the backpedal as truth. Dan Rather's staged "goof", on a side-issue of hipocrisy vs. patriotism and service, discredited all criticism of Bush. (CBS has old CIA links).
... damage the cause of exposing the 9/11/01 deception by steering people away from quality sites, and contextualizing the work of serious researchers as conclusion-driven nonsense. (Bush-hating, conspiracy-obsessing)
... Even setting all the technical issues aside, the no-plane analysis simply defies common sense.
Some 9-11 research is fairly accurate but has been associated with "poison pills", like a neo-Nazi agenda, UFOs, Crop Circles, extreme religions or political views, cults and anti-cults, etc. Some web-groups are bashing others for being INSUFFICIENTLY anti-Semitic, while any hint Jew-hating is automatically a poison pill in mainstream society.
In some ways, the worst stuff to deal with is that which is 95% accurate, because it's more difficult to dismiss. The Trojan horse technique deals with accurate info, but it comes out of the mouth of someone "sleazy" or who later publicly discredits themselves. See Charlie Sheen, Galloway (below). This "poison pill" trick often appears accidental, but just too idiotic.
(Break for News below, explanations on "perception management")
Arguing about physics leads only to frustration when some variables are unknown, or when the audience doesn't sufficiently understand Physics or Math. These arguments therefore exclude probably 80% of the population. PhD physicists sparring with other PhD physicists is not fun to watch. Crediting Ruppert with this wit: Political Physics: For every PhD, there is an equal and opposite PhD.
Nonsense as a Weapon - An effective tool for reinforcing the "loony
conspiricism" meme is the dissemination
that that have no basis in evidence,
and mixing fact
with fantasy. Too blatant to be
hope I never
add to that mess. You won't catch me offering gay stud
services, like "Jeff
the 1960s and 1970s, federal programs like COINTELPRO
undercover operatives to infiltrate the anti-war movement and
discredit groups. Agents would pose as radicals, both
collect information and also to encourage
illegal and dangerous
activity, plant rumors, and to create dissention within
and ridicule from without. The practice apparently continues
today, modernized for the Internet Age.
another detailed look at 9-11 Hoaxes
praising Brigham Young physics professor Steven E. Jones but damning his "colleagues".
Exposing Steve Jones as government op.
Jimmy Walter, a sugar daddy with poison pills, by Brian Salter
Forum discussion on Eric Hufschmid of Painful Questions and the video Painful Deceptions, and also Jimmy Walter. A chunks of Hufschmid's site is devoted to hating Jews. As the result, many other people, characterize ALL Sept 11 stuff as anti-Semitic, esp. Liberal activists.
Brian Salter at www.questionsquestions.net and Dan Hopsicker at www.madcowprod.com both
expose some "creeps" in the 911
movement: "activists" selling spiritual snake
Fintan Dunne of Break for News casts his net of fakes a little too wide .. but he's a skeptic of whistleblowers
MP loses respect after 'Big Brother' cat caper.
("Celebrity Big Brother" is Britain's equivalent of the Jerry Springer show)
I like Galloway and the Respect Party, but he sure looks cheesy here.
9/11 Goes 'Nuts' - August 05, 2005
overlapping Cointelpro-style Ops, homosexuality, child prostitution, satanic rituals
"The longer-term idea was to have the whole host of investigators and activist leaders take each other out, and thus run the movement into the ground. Build up 'heroes' of the 9/11 issue. Then later expose their deliberate flaws to cause their supporters to lose heart." ~ Dunne
Penn Jillette (Penn & Teller) video "debunking" two kooks - too kooky to be anything but CIA
9/11 Cartoon Pied Pipers (discussion on BfN)
JIMMY WALTER IN ACTION: SENSIBLE JIMMY on CNN ... vs. LUNATIC JIMMY
CNN: If Flight 77 didn't crash into the Pentagon, as you claim it didn't, what did and what happened to the 64 passengers who have died?
JIMMY WALTER: Well, I don't know. And I am not the person to ask this, I don't have the best evidence.
JIMMY WALTER later: "I firmly believe that many of the alleged passengers on the alleged hijacked aircraft are still alive. And quite frankly I think they were probably all working for the government."
MUST HEAR: InsideTrackNews060411a_Charlie_Sheen.mp3
The scenario of 'faked hijacking victims' WAS floated in the very real 1962 Northwoods memo plan, but no evidence has been offered to indicate this "passenger substitution" was used on 9-11. It's also counter-intuitive: with 3000 dead, what's a few hundred more? Jimmy does not mention this Northwoods point-of-reference to edify his wild assertion or to expand his argument into this 'open secret'. Jimmy has gone international in his pursuit of "truth-telling".
A few ways to recognize a "Psy-ops" campaign ...
... similar to a snake oil sales pitch, a family guilt trip. Psych 101. (per me)
Check the video below. It's on-the-scene coverage (and analysis) about how Fed authorities engineered RIOTS, MAYHEM, VIOLENCE, and PROPERTY DAMAGE in Seattle in 1999, in order to shut down legit political demonstation by normal people --- which was opposition to the same Globalization that Jerome Corsi of Swift Boats is finally coming out against now. www.Takeoverworld.info/vid/AJ-Police_State_Provocateurs-012505mdm.wmv
THE probably 2ND LONGEST PROPAGANDA CAMPAIGN EVER FOISTED UPON THE AMERICAN PUBLIC BY THE INTELLIGENCE / NATIONAL SECURITY MILLEAU, i.e., the CIA.
Specific Debunking summed up HERE
John Judge 5/19/2002
... They have spent $13 trillion tax dollars since the end of WWII on this military/intelligence complex, and it cannot protect its own headquarters?
It can track every electronic communication on earth, crack the codes of the Al Quaeda in advance of 9-11, locate bin Laden's cell phone, but it can't decipher what it all means?
And beyond that question is the more pertinent one hardly
anyone is asking.
moment they undeniably
knew in advance what was coming and where it was headed. Local news announced that DC was
the destination. Surface-to-air
missiles at the White House and Pentagon remained sheathed in their
silos. Despite the planes having turned off communications with
ground control towers and their identifying transponders (which also
shuts off their own near-range radar screens to avoid mid-air
collisions), they were clearly visible to all external radars, they
were being tracked by NORAD and DC towers, and they were somehow being
navigated directly to their target.
assumes that 'enemies' attacked us. Or it challenges the idea. If
'they' were 'allowed' to attack, were 'they' really enemies?)
Remote controlled planes
The State Department claims that remote controlled Boeing planes are not possible.
USA Today published an article shortly after 9/11 admitting that remote control technologies actually do exist for Boeing planes.www.usatoday.com/tech/techreviews/2001/10/2/remote-pilot.htm
10/02/2001 - Updated 12:18 PM ET
Remote piloting: Solution or disaster-in-the-making?
A FedEx 727 cargo plane lands using remote control technology being developed by Raytheon
BOSTON (AP) — There's little doubt that landing a plane from the ground — technology that could prevent hijackers turning a commercial jet into a weapon — could soon be feasible. Whether it's a good idea or not is another question. Raytheon is one of several companies looking to use new satellite technology that could someday allow jets to be landed by people on the ground, in much the same way that hobbyists bring in their model airplanes by remote control. The company announced Monday that its technology had guided a Federal Express 727 to a safe landing on a New Mexico Air Force base in August — all without the need of a pilot. Raytheon says the technology, primarily designed to help navigation, could be useful in a remote landing system.
Planes - Remote Control
NASA Dryden Controlled Impact Demonstration (CID) Aircraft Movie Collection
In 1984 NASA Dryden Flight Research Center and the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) teamed-up in a unique flight experiment called the Controlled Impact Demonstration (CID), to test the impact of a Boeing 720 aircraft using standard fuel
with an additive designed to suppress fire. The additive FM-9, a high molecular-weight long chain polymer, when blended with
Jet-A fuel had demonstrated the capability to inhibit ignition and flame propagation of the released fuel in simulated impact tests.
The aircraft was remotely flown by NASA research pilot Fitzhugh (Fitz) Fulton from the NASA Dryden Remotely Controlled
Vehicle Facility. Previously, the Boeing 720 had been flown on 14 practice flights with safety pilots onboard. During the 14
flights, there were 16 hours and 22 minutes of remotely piloted vehicle control, including 10 remotely piloted takeoffs,
69 remotely piloted vehicle controlled approaches, and 13 remotely piloted vehicle landings on abort runway.
is one site with a lot of rational disinfo challenges
which don't evolve into shrieking name-calling. I don't agree
with everything from Mark Rabinowitz, but he has a good
When you have a
sensitive topic here, when so much political
power is involved, there's going to be a series of false reports,
disinformation put forth to obscure the real story, red herrings to
throw off the dogs. It happened in the JFK assassination, and
You had rush hour
traffic on I-395 that saw the plane hit, you have 100
eyewitnesses compiled in the pamphlet published by Penny Schoner. Where
the hell did this theory come from? Thierry Meyssan’s book "The
Horrible Fraud" was the original source. Meyssan wrote his book from
Paris, he didn't travel over here. The book is highly imaginative, and
in the middle of a trauma, people are searching for answers. A lot of
people in the 9/11 truth movement glommed onto this one and I think
it’s hurt our credibility over all. You have to wonder if that was by
For instance, all
the right-wing magazines (e.g. National
Review) have had a field day.
The film Horns
documents the effort in 1999 and
2000 by writer Jim Hatfield to publish his book “Fortunate
biography of George
W. Bush. Karl
Rove was a source for Jim Hatfield’s revelation that Bush had indeed
as a younger man, but when the book was published, the
media focused instead on Hatfield’s past, not Bush’s. Hatfield had
served time in prison for attempted murder, and leaking the story to a writer with a
criminal record was a very cynical strategy to neutralize the
impact of Bush’s drug use. For details on this history, see www.sanderhicks.com (down)
Similar tactics were also used to wreck the “JFK Truth Movement,” the independent investigators who examined the assassination of President Kennedy. Perhaps the most notorious is the case of Charles Spiesel, a surprise witness for the prosecution who popped up during the trial of Clay Shaw (as depicted in the film JFK by Oliver Stone). On the witness stand, Mr. Spiesel admitted having heard Shaw discuss plans for the assassination with Lee Harvey Oswald and other conspirators. Under cross examination, he stated that he fingerprinted his daughter before she went to college and after she returned, to make sure she was the same person. Jim Garrison, the prosecuting attorney, wrote in his memoir “On the Trail of the Assassins”
Meyssan and Rumsfeld manufacture the missile hoax
The "no Boeing hit the Pentagon" claim is the most important and widespread 9/11 hoax. It was probably set up before the event since government agents seized surveillance camera videos within minutes of the crash (which is evidence for foreknowledge, but not for “no plane”). It is extremely unlikely that the conspirators who allowed (and assisted) 9/11 would not have taken care to create misdirecting hoaxes before the "attack," since they are very aware that large segments of the population would have suspicions about the events and therefore they would "need" to disrupt skeptical inquiry with red herrings, hoaxes, false dichotomies, etc.
This hoax is based on misrepresentation of photos taken shortly after the crash, ignoring of physical evidence and documented reports from hundreds of eyewitnesses who saw the plane. There is NO credible, verifiable evidence in support of ANY of the many and varied "theories" pretending that a plane did not crash into the Pentagon, and therefore, 9/11 was an inside job.
It was first floated in early October 2001 by French author
Thierry Meyssan and
(mentioned in passing by) US War
Rumsfeld. Monsieur Meyssan started a webpage that suggested a
not hit the Pentagon on October 7, and Rumsfeld
gave an interview to
Parade magazine on October 12 where he
said a "missile" hit the
Pentagon. That "missile" quote was then used by many no plane
as part of the campaign to draw attention to this claim. Meyssan went
on to create the "Hunt the Boeing"
website and then published two books "The Horrifying Fraud" (published
in English as "9/11 The Big Lie") and Pentagate. These books have been
translated into a total of 28
languages, which ensures that they are the dominant version of the claim
suggesting complicity or conspiracy that is seen around the
all the hullaballo, Rumsfeld simply said "he misspoke himself", matter
closed. Don't believe this was an accidental Freudian slip.)
Perhaps the most intriguing claim for “no plane” is the fact that the Pentagon is hiding footage from the video surveillance cameras that filmed the event. This suppression of evidence suggests foreknowledge (since FBI agents who seized the film were immediately able to grab the videos), but not "no plane." Hotel workers who watched "their" video before it was seized saw the plane. And the hundreds of commuters and other bystanders who were in the area also saw the plane, and those who cleaned up the damage afterwards saw the plane parts and remains of passengers.
is being withheld in a form of "reverse psychology"
to get the skeptics to think the Pentagon is hiding something when they
are not, which is needed to keep this hoax alive. Some 9/11 activists
who disbelieve the "no plane" stuff think the Pentagon is planning to
release "newly discovered" video of the plane hitting the building to
discredit 9/11 truth. “No plane hit the Pentagon” is the most important
9/11 hoax, and the Pentagon is probably having too much fun watching
the conspiracy people sink deeper into discrediting. They probably know
if the "no plane" claims are extinguished, many of those focused on the
"Pentagate" would shift their attention toward real issues such as how
Flight 77 was aimed at the nearly empty part of the Pentagon and why it
was not intercepted, even after the second plane hit the WTC.
Publishing these videos would also make it difficult for hoaxers to
continue to invent wilder and wilder nonsense.
These images succeeded in creating an endless
various factions arguing for one theory versus another: the Global Hawk
theory, the missile theory, the plane plus missile theory, the small
plane theory (none of these claims were encumbered by actual evidence).
None of the "no Boeing" theorists have
explained why the
perpetrators would have risked certain exposure by a bystander
capturing video of something that wasn't a Boeing 757. Video footage
from nearby surveillance cameras was immediately seized by the FBI.
Workers at a nearby hotel did get to see their film (prior to its
impoundment) and did not report seeing anything other than a plane
hitting the Pentagon. Keeping the film footage secret allows
speculation to flourish, which serves the
interests of the plotters.
Washington, DC voted 90% against Bush in 2004, and Arlington County (where the Pentagon is located) is the most Democratic constituency in the Commonwealth of Virginia. (The Republicans in the DC area are more concentrated in Fairfax County and other outer suburbs, especially those outside the Capitol Beltway.) The “no plane” hoax is a primary reason why there have been very few “9/11 truth” events inside the Beltway despite overwhelming opposition to the regime.
The State Department "misinformation" website lists what they call "myths" about 9/11 that focus on the hoaxes while ignoring the best evidence.
I do not 100% agree with
this list, but most of the list is backed by some strong evidence and
inferences, constantly promoting useless stuff.
However, I don't know why I EVER believed in the possibility that actual indictments were remotely likely. Who in power would initiate? Who couldn't they find to suppress any action? We couldn't even bust them on Iran-Contra!! This will either be resolved by mass rebellion, or not at all. The "System" will NEVER resolve it and the traitors will NEVER be charged with capital murder. They will just use it to toy with us, so long as they remain in power.